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Mark Sable and David Roth on FEARLESS |
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Written by Caleb Monroe
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Tuesday, 06 November 2007 |
This week I talk to Mark Sable and David Roth, the writers behind the new Image book FEARLESS (with 2000AD artist PJ Holden). Mark has previously written GROUNDED, also from Image, and, while David has a Hollywood writing background, this is his first foray into comics.
Be sure to read all the way to the end, where I have a special treat: a script-to-final-pages look at a sequence from FEARLESS! The book will be on your comic shelves tomorrow, so make sure to get your copy.
And if you live in the LA area and want a chance to meet these guys, they'll be doing a signing tomorrow night at Meltdown Comics.
As a writer, why have you chosen to work in comics?
MARK SABLE: It’s hard not to answer that question without saying something far better writers have said far more articulately than me. But let me say this—I think I got into it for the wrong reasons and stayed in it for the right ones.
The wrong reasons being…I wrote GROUNDED, my first comic series (available now from Image in TPB, and online for free at http://comics.newsarama.com/grounded/) as a screenplay. I thought that doing it as a comic would be a great way to get it made as a movie.
That didn’t happen, although having a comic instead of a spec screenplay opened doors for me in Hollywood. But I found that, in adapting the screenplay into a comic script, that I loved the process and the form.
First off, it’s nice to have something you can hold in your hands at the end, something that no one can ever take away from you. I love the creative freedom that comes with the industry in general. There’s less money, there’s less layers of approval, and of course the idea that your budget is only limited by the artist’s imagination.
I love the respect writers are given relative to other mediums. And Image is a place founded by creators who wanted to own their own properties and nourish other artists with similar aspirations.
There’s also the idea of collaborating with an artist. Writing is a solitary vocation, and it’s great to have that back and forth. And when you are lucky enough to collaborate with artists like Paul Azaceta (GROUNDED) and PJ Holden (FEARLESS) what they produce is most often better than what you imagined.
But most of all…I love the day to day process of breaking down a script into pages and panels. The art of juxtaposing words and pictures…I find it a constant challenge. I’ve often heard that comic artists are analogous to directors in film. I think there’s some truth in that, but I think that, depending on how tightly one scripts, the writer is also part director, composing the shots etc. The artist is part cinematographer, executing those shots, and part actor.
Artists are actors in that…well, in some ways, they sell a comic in the way movie stars open a film. But also in that…it’s up to them to express characters’ emotions visually. As a comics writer, that means you often have to do something that you’d never do in a screenplay or play—describe a character’s facial expression (again, I’ve been lucky enough to work with artists who, when I fail to do that, pick up on the subtext of a scene and find the right expression anyway).
Doing a creator-owned comic…there’s an element of being a producer as well—dealing with the business aspects of the process—marketing, dealing with publishers, coordinating colorists and letters as well as artists…that’s my least favorite part of the process though.
All of this is a long winded way of saying that a comics writer gets to do a lot more than writers in other mediums. I find that very attractive.
DAVID ROTH: Mark’s answer covers a lot of what I would say. The strongest reason in my mind is the freedom to create in a medium that was neither cost nor creatively restricting. One of the things that make comics such a great venue is the mere possibilities they allow—that as a writer anything you or your artist can draw can happen. The audience is also fairly unique—readers tend to be very savvy and appreciate stories of all kinds, which opens up even more doors.
How did you two come to be writing FEARLESS together, and how did PJ end up as the artist?
MARK: The concept of FEARLESS—a superhero addicted to an anti-fear drug—originated with me. It’s a great concept, but it’s also a concept that could be executed in a million different ways. Unfortunately, I found myself trying to do all of them at once. In my initial notes and outlines, I came up with a history of the drug and its users from the time of Christ to the present, with stops along the way at Nazi concentration camps, super-soldier battlefields in Vietnam and a modern day pharmaceutical company. It was getting to the point where the mythology was overwhelming everything else. That’s when I brought Dave in.
I’ve been friends with Dave for a long time, and he’s the first person that I (and just about every other writer he knows) goes to for notes. When he started talking about the project it became clear to me that he shouldn’t be giving me notes, he should be writing it, and thankfully he agreed. In Adam Rygert (aka FEAR), Dave came up with a strong protagonist—a character suffering from a crippling anxiety disorder—as well as an antagonist and supporting cast that compliment Adam well. Dave also brought a strong sense of story structure to the story. Finally, not being the twenty-something year comics uber-fan that I am, I think he helped make this a comic that’s accessible to non-comics readers.
As for PJ, I was lucky enough to find him through (NYC Mech co-writer and 24/7 editor) Ivan Brandon, who knew I was looking for an artist and saw his work on Warren Ellis’ late, lamented Engine message board. PJ was kind enough not only to attach himself based on my pitch, but wait, draw, and re-draw while Dave was brought aboard and we refined the concept.
DAVE: Again, Mark pretty much covered it. I’m just glad he trusted me with the idea and it’s been a great experience the whole way through.
Can you describe your creative process, from first idea to completed pages? In particular, how does your writing collaboration work?
MARK: We start talking, then generally one of us writes something—a character biography, and outline—and we keep going back and forth until we make it work. One of the things I found interesting is that it goes back and forth so many times that you start to forget what each person’s individual contribution is, which I think is a good thing—it helps from getting too attached to a favorite line or scene.
DAVE: We began talking in broader terms and narrowed it down as the actual story evolved. We’d throw in different ideas at different points until eventually splitting up to put them to page (or, more aptly, to computer screen) and from there wait for the other to expand, cut back, or say that the entire idea is ridiculous and should be erased from memory—an instance I must admit happened much more after I turned things into Mark.
How does working with a co-writer compare to writing a project solo?
MARK: I like to think that it takes twice as long to collaborate but the writing winds up twice as good. Everything has to be approved (albeit grudgingly, sometimes) by both of us, but at the same time every word, image and story beat has the benefit of two people making sure it’s the best it can be.
DAVE: Though it’s natural to at some times to want to control everything, having a partner can teach you a tremendous amount about your own writing—both in forcing you to filter your ideas through another creative person as well as hearing their ideas and realizing why they may work better than what you initially thought.
How did you pitch FEARLESS to Image?
MARK: Despite having a project that was already published (GROUNDED), and another project approved (the upcoming OGN HAZED) I basically followed the same submission guidelines as everyone else—5 pages of sequential art and a one-page pitch. The only difference was at this point I could e-mail Eric Stephenson and Erik Larsen directly, instead of having someone introduce me to them at a con.
Do you have "office hours," so to speak: specific set times during the day or week when you write, or is it a more fluid situation? Have your years as a writer taught you any secrets to budgeting writing time?
MARK: Oh God, I wish I had office hours. I mean, I try to…and when I do I not only get writing done but I feel better about myself as a human being. When you don’t write regularly, you are too dependent upon “the muse”, and you need deadlines to kick you in the ass. Dave has a far better work ethic than me.
DAVE: My actual “office hours” vary but I do try to get writing done every day. You can’t control creativity and some times are more productive than others, but you never know when inspiration will strike, so it makes sense to try and cast as wide a net as possible.
What is your workspace like?
MARK: I have the absolute worst workspace. Not only because it’s more often than not cluttered. But I work out of my home, and I think that when you use the same computer for surfing the internet and playing computer games, it’s easy to get distracted.
DAVE: My physical location is either at a coffee shop or on the balcony outside my apartment. No video games, no internet, no distractions. These are also the only places I can find free of clutter as I’m a freakishly messy person.
It's been said that to make writing a career you have to sell more than just a story: you have to sell yourself. Do you agree, and do you have any insight to share on how to go about such a thing?
MARK: I think there’s definitely some truth in that. Dave can probably speak to TV, where you not only have to sell your writing, but your ability to function in a writer’s room. In comics, having a personality and a presence in the comics world, particularly on the web, seems to have helped a lot of writers. I think Brian Michael Bendis and Warren Ellis have benefited tremendously from their forums. Part of it is being accessible to your fans, and comics are a small enough audience that you can still do that (even if your interaction is a brief message saying you’re banned from my board). But it’s more than that. I think those two writers, for instance, have unique voices, and that voice permeates not only their comics writing but their interviews, essays, fan interaction etc. Intentionally or not, they’ve built a brand by blurring the line between their writing and public persona, and that breeds loyalty among fans.
DAVE: That’s an interesting question. The short answer is yes, but that may be a bit misleading. Presentation counts, especially in TV, which as Mark alluded can be a truly collaborative setting, but that doesn’t mean you have to “sell” an extroverted, entertaining image that isn’t you. That will only detract from your writing—since your writing will inevitably reflect who you are to some degree—that’s where it’s coming from, isn’t it? So rather then dwell on how to be a better salesman or woman, my advice would mirror millions of mothers across the world and just tell you to be yourself and write the best you can—that’s what matters most in the end anyway and any bells and whistles you add are just that.
What would you say is the #1 mistake you see aspiring writers making?
MARK: Hmm…probably turning in a first draft, or more generally submitting something before it’s ready (which I still do).
DAVE: Believing so strongly in your work that you don’t listen to criticism and neglect the rewrite process. I see a ton of less experienced writers doing this—they’re happy to have finished something (which they can rightly be), but then mistakenly believe their work is done and the money will just start rolling in. This hurts you on an individual project basis and inhibits your growth. Everyone starts at different levels, with different strengths and different weaknesses, but anyone can improve. Even if you don’t agree with a note or reaction, it’s far more valuable to listen anyway and try and figure out if they are right about some aspect, no matter how small, than simply disregard it entirely. Then go back and rethink what you’ve done and rewrite it, not just a line or a comma, but a true rewrite where you take something good and make it great.
What's the best advice you could give on the craft of writing?
MARK: Do as I say, not as I do…write regularly (set number of hours or pages, preferably at the same time every day), and often. Reading helps, getting feedback helps, but nothing makes you a better writer than writing (and re-writing) yourself.
DAVE: Remember—writing is a craft, not a gift. As I said above, producing work is only the first step, and a great one at that, but not enough to make you a writer. It requires hating your work as you love it, cramming your brain to figure out exactly the best way to put this whole thing together. And that’s a process—different for every story as for every writer, but a process that must be refined.
Beyond that, I’m gonna pull up another cliché (what writer doesn’t steal?), and say that its important to stick to basics at first. A compelling character with a true emotional journey that directs the physical action. Genres come in and out of fashion, world events change, but this simple formula’s managed to last thousands of years, so it’s probably worth checking out.
What’s the best advice you can give on the life of being a writer?
MARK: To take the long view. I was lucky in that I got my first agent while I was still in grad school for Dramatic Writing at NYU. With that came a false sense of entitlement. I expected overnight success to follow, and when it didn’t, I felt bad about myself as a writer for a long time. I wish someone had told me then that it was a marathon, not a sprint. Most writers go through a long development period, and persistence and stamina are sometimes even more valuable than talent. So I guess my advice is…have patience. It’s okay to work as if each project you are working on is going to be the one that catapults you to fame and fortune, but be prepared for the fact that it probably isn’t, and deal with the disappointment by starting on your next project right away.
DAVE: Hollywood likes to liken itself to the marines—the strong tough it out, the weak fail. I really, really hate that analogy. Everyone’s path is different—this isn’t a career that starts at jr. exec before you get to CEO. Fortunes change quickly, people get fired and hired for bad reasons sometimes—in short, things happen. The only aspect you control is yourself. Keep following your dream until it gives back or until you realizing it isn’t even what you really want and move on. And yes, this continues even after you’ve “made it.” It’s hard, especially at first, but patience, reality, and a little dreaming should give you a great indication of where you’re going.
Do you have any insight to share about finding a balance between writing and other aspects of life, like family or friends?
MARK: Screen your calls. I’m only half kidding. Treat your writing time as if it were any other kind of job where it would be inappropriate to take a personal call. That’s hard, because non-writers often don’t regard your writing time as work.
DAVE: Accept that there are times when things absolutely must get done, and short of some major family crisis that’s not going to change. And then accept that actually occurs almost never, leaving you the rest of your life—the time you’re writing or you aren’t writing. Keeping them separate is important because writing is a job in itself—take the time to finish your work, then take the time to not be at work. It’s a tricky balance, but thinking you can make writing your entire life is a path I could not wish on anyone.
Back to FEARLESS. What new lessons have you learned in the creation of this project that you will carry into future projects?
MARK: I’ve learned that I need to communicate better with the artists. I scripted more loosely than I have before with FEARLESS. While most of the time PJ was able to nail the pages despite that, there were some times where we had to ask him to redraw some scenes because we hadn’t been clear enough as writers in terms of what we wanted.
I think the best example of this was the design for FEAR’s suit. We did the absolute worst thing you can do to an artist—basically, tell PJ “we’ll know it when we see it”. As a result, PJ probably did…I want to say somewhere in the neighborhood of like 50 designs before he just nailed it. That was incredibly unfair to him and it’s a testament to his patience and professionalism that he put up with that.
DAVE: I’ve learned a ton, but more than all the details of how production works and how to get your vision to the page, this type of collaboration really forces you to explore your strengths and weaknesses—when you’re helping the project, not hurting it. Basically, there are times you should fight for that one idea, and others when it’s best to sit back and see what your co-creators can do.
And I make a solemn oath on my next project to have a better idea for the artist for what our character’s suit will look like outside of “uh, y’know, like cool.”
I think every project comes with a unique set of obstacles all its own, both internal and external ones. What obstacles came with writing Fearless, and how did you overcome them?
MARK: From a business perspective, finding an artist was extremely difficult. When you are talking about creator-owned work, it’s hard to find a talented, reliable artist that is willing to work for a piece of the ever elusive back-end was a challenge even after having a relative success like GROUNDED. Most artists fall into two categories…ones that are hungry but aren’t ready for their work to be published, and ones that are more seasoned and therefore don’t want to take the pay cut involved in doing creator-owned work as opposed to working for a high page rate. With persistence and luck we found PJ, but it took a long, long time.
From a creative perspective, finding a story and character that fit the concept. When I tell people the logline for FEARLESS—a vigilante has to take an addictive anti-fear drug in order to fight crime—the response is almost always “great concept”. But coming up with an idea is the easy part, and execution is everything. Again, I got lucky with Dave, who could sense the kind of protagonist and storyline that would bring the best out of the concept.
Finally, unlike previous projects I’ve worked on, we did not have the entire story scripted before PJ started working on the art. I think Dave is probably more used to that working in TV, where you are writing episode 6 while you are shooting episode 1. There were moments when we were working on the later issues that I wanted to go back and change things in the first two and just couldn’t. That wasn’t something we necessarily “overcame”, but I think there was a positive side to that challenge. Getting to see PJ’s art and what he was capable of as a storyteller, I think it made each issue better as we wrote more and more to his strengths.
DAVE: To be honest, I’m such a newcomer here that I have no idea what obstacles would differentiate this from any other process. Despite similarities to things I’ve encountered in TV or Film, I still had to face them in earnest and try to find the best solution. I actually think the whole thing ran really smoothly and honestly have no complaints about how things could’ve been handled better—save my own habit of running late on turning things in because something or other came up in my “day job.”
Do you have any current or upcoming projects you want to plug?
MARK: Definitely. In February, my original graphic novel HAZED comes out from Image. Illustrated by Robbi Rodriguez (Hero Camp, Maintenance, Stephen Colbert’s Tek Jansen), it’s quite a departure from my previous work. It’s a dark comedy about sororities and eating disorders. It’s like Heathers or Mean Girls set in college. I don’t think there’s anything like it out there in comics right now. It should be available for pre-order in November previews.
Later this month I have a story called “They Shoot Ponies, Don’t They” in Image’s POPGUN anthology. It’s a midget western. Between those two projects I think I’m going to surprise a lot of readers who think of me as a superhero guy. And undoubtedly offend a lot of anorexic sorority girls and midgets.
DAVE: Nothing new for me yet. I just can’t wait to see how it goes.
Thank you, Mark, Dave! And now, as if all that writing wisdom weren't enough, let's take an advance behind-the-scenes look at FEARLESS #1, which will be on shelves tomorrow:
Here are both the script and the final pages for pages 12-14 of issue 1. I picked this sequence because of the way the story, art, colors and letters all necessary to make this scene work. It's a good chance to see the magic of collaboration at work (The Nick referred to in the script notes is Nick Filardi, the book's colorist). Be sure to catch the rest of the action in the pages of FEARLESS #1. And feel free to discuss this column in its message board thread over at the Scryptuc forums.
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